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Post by makemineapint on Feb 5, 2023 12:25:12 GMT
There is talking a good game but he needs to also play a good game. He gets it right away but cant convert that at home! Maybe it's because the players get backed away from home and at Deepdale they're on their backs from the kick off? I followed PNE home and away in the old 3rd and 4th divisions when it was fortress Deepdale and away we didnt expect to win more than 4 or 5 games. In those days the fans would have snapped your hand off for a tilt at the play offs (or promotion ) Home fans are different and the toxicity/expectation that has manifested is unbelievable. To be honest I find it strange that a guy such as yourself, who's input I find helpful and informative would in any shape or form lay one iota of blame on the fanbase of PNE. The percentage of moaning Minnie's is no more or less than at any club but the rubbish show they have had to suffer for so long, especially the last few years is more than any fan of any club with the history and opportunities available to PNE should have to suffer. The fans of PNE have been above and beyond in the loyalty stakes and to me have shown great patience.🤔 It was s**t show I wrote!
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DWR@SLC
Preston North End
Posts: 10,647 Likes: 3,886
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Lowe Out
Feb 5, 2023 12:43:40 GMT
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Post by DWR@SLC on Feb 5, 2023 12:43:40 GMT
He’s one of the happy clapping brigade! They show as much ambition as the club. Happy with their lot 👍👏👏👏
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Post by walburghian on Feb 5, 2023 13:39:41 GMT
Regarding a Defensive Coach, there is a superb presentation you can find somewhere on YouTube & /or Twitter by Sean Dyche. It is worth a watch. He defines a Defensive triangle in front of the goal & ignores, basically what is happening on the Wings. Sent to me by my Everton fan after the match. If the guys in the middle do their job then it doesn't matter what the Winger does. Everton did not mark Martinelli yesterday & didn't concede. Worth a watch & I learnt something from it.The Twitter link was greenallefc but it must be on YouTube as well.It did get me thinking that RL started the Season with a team that didn't concede goals - but we didn't concede them either. In an attempt to solve the latter, maybe RL has fallen between 2 stools?
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Post by makemineapint on Feb 5, 2023 14:21:39 GMT
It is said that it is Mike Marsh that coaches the defence, Lowe coaches the forwards?
Maybe Lowe is ignoring Marsh's input?
Maybe Gally has the midfielders coached to a fine art and he is ignoring him to?
It is more likely though that Lowe is choosing the wrong formation, the wrong players and when it goes wrong, the wrong subs at the wrong time?
I hate to be downhearted but from my limited position it seems Lowe isn't doing a great job, Lowe and Ridsdale aren't doing a great job with recruitment and the Hemmings aren't doing a great job employing them both, but apart from that?
As for the players, I feel to a man they are giving their best, they are probably doing it having to play in positions not their best and if some are brassed off as much as the fans I wouldn't blame them.
If they aren't good enough it isn't their fault/problem.
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Post by walburghian on Feb 5, 2023 14:35:46 GMT
Just found the full Dyche Masterclass on YouTube. Definitely worth a watch, my respect for Dyche has increased now I know what he was trying to do & why. Maybe RL should watch it?
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Phantom Winger
Preston North End
Good luck to all in white.
Posts: 15,290 Likes: 6,249
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Post by Phantom Winger on Feb 5, 2023 23:08:01 GMT
There is talking a good game but he needs to also play a good game. He gets it right away but cant convert that at home! Maybe it's because the players get backed away from home and at Deepdale they're on their backs from the kick off? I followed PNE home and away in the old 3rd and 4th divisions when it was fortress Deepdale and away we didnt expect to win more than 4 or 5 games. In those days the fans would have snapped your hand off for a tilt at the play offs (or promotion ) Home fans are different and the toxicity/expectation that has manifested is unbelievable. I agree expectations are high but the fans just need something to feed off. A sniff of positive play and the ground gets behind them. Turgid play is turning people away. I wish to be entertained at least some of the time. Can’t renew with RL in charge. Wonder if I’m on my own.
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Post by NobbyDawson on Feb 6, 2023 10:10:55 GMT
Unless there is a major shake-up, I guess "thousands" will not renew including myself.. Already I am being more selective and weighing up alternatives to leaving Deepdale feeling almost exploited. On the night of the Luton fixture I will be enjoying (note that word) an evening of free music in my local ,checking the score on my phone
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Post by daveoggy on Feb 6, 2023 12:12:41 GMT
There is talking a good game but he needs to also play a good game. He gets it right away but cant convert that at home! Maybe it's because the players get backed away from home and at Deepdale they're on their backs from the kick off? I followed PNE home and away in the old 3rd and 4th divisions when it was fortress Deepdale and away we didnt expect to win more than 4 or 5 games. In those days the fans would have snapped your hand off for a tilt at the play offs (or promotion ) Home fans are different and the toxicity/expectation that has manifested is unbelievable. You make a far point, PNE From Afar, I too went to a lot of away games when I was younger and there is more vocal backing. Don't know where these negative supporters come from but we have them and its a fact of life. If these people had something to cheer about then they will get behind the team and manager. Something is definitely wrong with our home form. The manager has to take the blame for that, he picks the side and tells them the formation to play. He persists with this 3 5 2 formation reverting to 5 3 2 when defending but we don't have the players who can play that game. He refused to move from that formation. He had 12 months to find the formula at home and we are still waiting. I have had a season ticket for 40 + years and see some of the dark days but this is poor. Will I still come on and renew the season ticket, yes, I will also get behind the team when there is something to get behind.
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Post by deepdaleoldun on Feb 6, 2023 13:45:13 GMT
daveoggy, I,m sure that everyone on here will be behind the team when we see something to cheer about but like I have previously stated for me to attend Home games costs me around £100 and being a pensioner I am not willing to spend that kind of money to watch the rubbish that we are getting at the moment
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Post by Mooney on Feb 6, 2023 15:28:35 GMT
makemineapint, DWR@SLC, walburghian, Phantom Winger, NobbyDawson, daveoggy, deepdaleoldun, I think that by now, most of you will know I am pretty balanced and not prone to knee-jerk reactions. With this in mind, there are a few things about football managers and coaches. The first one is that there have been studies that have showed simply changing managers makes no difference to performance. Most managers are much of a muchness, they have strengths and they have weaknesses. So unless you win the lottery and get one of the exceptional ones in (think Steve Cooper at Forest), potting Lowe and bringing in AN Other won't get us up into the top 6, nor would it be likely to relegate us (unless we appointed Fergie Jr, or similar!) Having said that, I like to balance the view with one simple question, 'Could the manager be getting more out of the players than he is currently?' and this includes whether players are improving under his leadership, how many players are flying, and how many are declining. Sad truth of this is that way, way too many players are not thriving at the moment and have been in decline since Ryan took over. DJ, Ledson, Brady, Browne, Potts, Riis (when fit) all look like shadows of the players they have been in the past. The reason for this is leadership - or lack of it. I've worked in leadership for over 20 years now and one thing I have learnt is that you have to know how people tick, how to get the best out of individuals, and listening to RL's interviews, he is all over the place. After the Norwich game, he publicly castigated the players... 'lack of commitment'. The following week, he said 'one thing this team never lacks is commitment'. There's no consistency, he contradicts himself constantly and (for me this is the unforgiveable bit), week by week he appears to be throwing blame all over the place. Look at who he's thrown under the bus in recent weeks: 1) The players - not trying hard enough (when to everyone else in the world, it was obvious the shape of the team was wrong) 2) The fans - 'not blaming the fans, but you need to get behind us'. When he's promised an attacking brand of football and we've scored 9 in 15 games, I understand the frustration. I'll never boo, groan or shout abuse at our lads, as it is counter productive... but nonetheless, it's not our fault that the team strategy is so poor we rarely create chances. 3) Physio and Fitness team are the latest in the firing line I see today. Ryan - buy yourself a mirror 'lad' and have a good look in it. If you want a long career in leadership/management, you have to have humility, the ability to reflect, and wide enough shoulders to take the blame. Even when it isn't your fault. How much goodwill would he get from inside the dressing room if he came out and said 'we lost that game because my strategy was wrong, and it's not down to the players'. Look at Ferguson - he ALWAYS supported his players, even when privately he was crucifying them. Lowe in or out? It's out for me I'm afraid. I think he's far from the worst manager we've had (Fergie Jr, Medalwinner and Phil Brown were all far worse IMO) but he's the most self-unaware and thinks he's far better than he is. If I were to see a corner flag on PNE Twitter tomorrow, I wouldn't be disappointed.
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Post by makemineapint on Feb 6, 2023 16:40:56 GMT
Mooney The MOC chairman will be along soon to tear up your membership card! 😂
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Post by walburghian on Feb 6, 2023 16:48:02 GMT
Incidentally, Plymouth are flying at the moment, so perhaps we did sign the wrong Manager?
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Post by Mooney on Feb 6, 2023 18:32:15 GMT
Mooney The MOC chairman will be along soon to tear up your membership card! 😂 I still think positively! Just getting dragged down a bit lately. I’m still off to Burnley on Saturday!
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Lowe Out
Feb 6, 2023 19:55:34 GMT
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Post by walburghian on Feb 6, 2023 19:55:34 GMT
Apparently Leeds Utd fancy RL to replace Marsch. What do we have to do to encourage them? Maybe we should start a campaign to support him - to encourage Leeds to go for him. Then we can go for the Plymouth Manager instead. Politics, talking of which who believes Man City did not break the rules on 100 occasions - we may be playing them next Season, in the Championship though!
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Post by Bobby Ham's sarnie on Feb 6, 2023 20:07:50 GMT
The main problem at the club lies with PR, the person who has used his "vast football knowledge and extensive football network" as we were informed by the club on his appointment to appoint these awful managers. Mason Greenwood as player manager. He could link up with the unsavoury one. A partnership made in heaven.
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DWR@SLC
Preston North End
Posts: 10,647 Likes: 3,886
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Lowe Out
Feb 7, 2023 14:56:07 GMT
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Post by DWR@SLC on Feb 7, 2023 14:56:07 GMT
Engines running Ryan. Hop in, I’m off to Yorkshire anyway
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DWR@SLC
Preston North End
Posts: 10,647 Likes: 3,886
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Lowe Out
Feb 7, 2023 14:57:04 GMT
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Post by DWR@SLC on Feb 7, 2023 14:57:04 GMT
Happy clappers makemine 👍
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Lowe Out
Feb 7, 2023 21:17:27 GMT
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Post by BroughtonWhite on Feb 7, 2023 21:17:27 GMT
I’ve voted stay - If someone had said we’d be 11th at this point in the season before the season started people would be reasonably happy.
For the time being I don’t see any point in sacking RL - we aren’t threatened by going down so surely he deserves at least a full season to try and turn it around again.
As for his appointment, he’s a young manager with 2 promotions under his belt and was flying high in league one - could we have done any better?
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dawsonsjs
Preston North End
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Post by dawsonsjs on Feb 7, 2023 21:58:19 GMT
The first promotion (bringing in players way beyond the club's capacity to pay them) litetrally finished the club off.
It's arguable who was the coach behind the second promotion.
As we don't know and never will know who else applied for the job the q. as to whether or not the club could have done better will never be answered.
What is known is that the home record this season is the worst in over 140 years of the club's history. (I would also add the performances have been equally dire).
It is hard to see how anybody else could have fared worse.
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Lowe Out
Feb 7, 2023 22:08:54 GMT
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Post by pnebraddy87 on Feb 7, 2023 22:08:54 GMT
Read some horrendous stats from Lowes only full season in league one, managed to take Plymouth from 9th to 18th in the final 17 games with I think it was 3 wins. Had some real good to mi gs at home and struggled to score goals, sound familiar….
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Post by BroughtonWhite on Feb 7, 2023 22:21:41 GMT
I expect we also have one of the best away records in over 140 years?
He left Plymouth 4th in league one - so not terrible.
It’s obviously not great at the moment, 5 home defeats in a row is hard to take but Im not convinced a new manager, who the same people will want sacked in 12 months when we’re not top of the league, is the answer.
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dawsonsjs
Preston North End
Posts: 11,304 Likes: 3,981
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Post by dawsonsjs on Feb 8, 2023 9:21:27 GMT
It was only 4 months into the season when he left Plymouth ...at the highest position where he has ever been as a manager. And how much of this was down to Schumacher is an issue.
Look where we have been this season...snap shots are nothing to go by...and let's see what the away record looks like at the end of the season given the games we have got coming up.
Lowe's entire career has been spent at L2 and L1 levels....until Ridsdale appoints him on the strenght of what...taking Bury up buying their way out of L2 and taking Plymouth out of L2, a big club for that div and with Schumacher as the asst.
Reality is that it's not much of a CV ...on the other hand , like Westley, he can talk.
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Post by markos50 on Feb 8, 2023 10:53:05 GMT
Daws old chap, this was your post on his appointment!
"On the face of it a decent appointment...glad to see another coach with him"
I think we all thought the same, you clearly did!
I too have been critical of RL but as I have said before I'm pausing it until the seasons end. I'm now moving towards our very average squad, who excel away - which may be down to RL - and get found out at home, which again may be down to RL.
There are no creative players No 20 goal a season striker And most of all no on field leader who stands head and shoulders above the rest to set the style A VERY average squad
All the above indicate a lack of cohesion and ambition at the club in several areas that you have correctly pointed out
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dawsonsjs
Preston North End
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Post by dawsonsjs on Feb 8, 2023 12:14:31 GMT
That's right at the time it looked an OK appointment considering where Plymouth were in L1 and I always take the view that any new manager deserves a chance to show what they can do. . However whn you take a closwer look at his background, as you should when considering an appointment, and at what he has been doing at PNE he is out of his depth in the Champ. So far he has managed to paper over the limitations by having 5 at the back in away games and getting results on the break (nothing wrong with that) but it doesn't work at home and it won't work away from home with sides that play the ball quicker. And it doesn't work at home because the side isn't used to playing on the front front, doesn't play the ball quick enough, build ups are laborious and enough players don't get in the box quick enough due to picking 2 defensive midfielders.
Granted he hasn't much of a squad to work with but he is not getting the best out of what he has got.
And just look at the stark contrast between the histories of the 2 best managers |Ridsdale has brought in: SG and AN...and their histories as players and managers and the level at which they have had experience and the worst Westley, McEvoy and now Lowe
It was matter of fortune that SG and AN were available.
When he has had to select (as opposed to having an obvious choice available) Ridsdale has failed, failed and, now , failed again.
He doesn't appear to have learned a single thing from his own abject record and should never be entrusted with the job again.
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DWR@SLC
Preston North End
Posts: 10,647 Likes: 3,886
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Lowe Out
Feb 11, 2023 16:20:37 GMT
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Post by DWR@SLC on Feb 11, 2023 16:20:37 GMT
Surely times up? Absolute garbage
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NorthEnd
Preston North End
The Preston Pie Man
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Lowe Out
Feb 11, 2023 16:25:41 GMT
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Post by NorthEnd on Feb 11, 2023 16:25:41 GMT
Time to go I think, our away form has made me stick previously to stay but these performances lately are absolutely dire.
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DWR@SLC
Preston North End
Posts: 10,647 Likes: 3,886
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Lowe Out
Feb 11, 2023 16:28:55 GMT
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Post by DWR@SLC on Feb 11, 2023 16:28:55 GMT
He is totally clueless. Probably worse than westley
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PNE From Afar
Preston North End
#teamslikepreston
Posts: 5,840 Likes: 1,618
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Post by PNE From Afar on Feb 11, 2023 16:56:14 GMT
He'll walk and get a job at a club where they're all forward thinking and behind the progress of the club.
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DWR@SLC
Preston North End
Posts: 10,647 Likes: 3,886
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Lowe Out
Feb 11, 2023 16:58:42 GMT
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Post by DWR@SLC on Feb 11, 2023 16:58:42 GMT
Does he need a lift?
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PNE From Afar
Preston North End
#teamslikepreston
Posts: 5,840 Likes: 1,618
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Post by PNE From Afar on Feb 11, 2023 17:04:32 GMT
I doubt it. He'll be happy to make his own way out.
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