dawsonsjs
Preston North End
Posts: 9,599 Likes: 3,232
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Post by dawsonsjs on Oct 16, 2020 17:40:30 GMT
Lockdown is not about elimination...it's about slowing down the spread and the evidence supporting this is overwhelming which is why the scientists suggest doing it on a regular basis (until a vaccine or a better way is found).
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Post by walburghian on Oct 16, 2020 18:31:13 GMT
Lockdown is not about elimination...it's about slowing down the spread and the evidence supporting this is overwhelming which is why the scientists suggest doing it on a regular basis (until a vaccine or a better way is found). I have no problem with this because I am not a scientist. However, what if the virus goes dormant whilst the lockdown is in place? Then, when rules are relaxed, just as they have been recently, it comes back? We have wasted 9months and no further forward? I, and all those vulnerable, are keeping safe and not exposing themselves to risk. No-one knows anything about this virus or if it will go away. Shut down the country for 3 months and then, when you re-open, it comes back. Apart from the substantial cost of paying people for being unable to work, what have you proved? History shows the answer, and, if you do not like it, so be it. The virus must run its course and people will die. Sadly, that is fact. You cannot protect everyone. The rest of6the country needs to go back to work and earn a living - just like you and I did in 1968.
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dawsonsjs
Preston North End
Posts: 9,599 Likes: 3,232
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Post by dawsonsjs on Oct 16, 2020 20:43:54 GMT
It's nothing like as simple as aiming for herd immunity and letting people die....a matter I suggest no civilised nation would do. Apart from the human misery from the loss of valued lives the continuing cost of providing for those with continuing long-term conditions would be astronomical. The virus is now spreading most rapidly amongst younger people...not all of whom will make a full recovery.....I was out yesterday passing local Uni Halls of Residence and saw not one but two ambulances leaving the campus...I've no idea if those inside were students with Covid but given 1100 local students now testing positive there's a high prospect of that being the case. (Given that students were told to go back to Uni and that they have communal living arrangements, shared kitchens, tv rooms, showers etc what's occurred doesn't surprise me in the least).
What lockdown does, besides checking the spread, is to buy time for a vaccine to be developed and, importantly, for appropriate medical care to be put into place. Far less people are now dying because medics have learned better how to treat patients and what drugs help produce the best outcomes. The NHS hasn't been overwhelmed which it would otherwise be without lockdown...although if this current second wave continues at the rate it is without lockdowns (tier 3 call it what you will) it will be. There is also the prospect of the becoming dormant...scientists refer to latency.
You appear to be under a misunderstanding over herd immunity. There was letter in the Lancet recently signed by 80 leading scientists and medics warning the government against such a position. They said there is no proof people even get immune after catching the virus once, and that the process of letting it spread would cripple hospitals everywhere. Health and care workers would face 'unacceptable' burdens and trauma in the face of a devastating and uncontrollable pandemic and it could leave many survivors with poorly-understood and long-lasting side effects known as 'long Covid'. [Uncontrolled transmission in younger people risks significant morbidity [illness] and mortality [death] across the whole population,' the letter said.
The concept of herd immunity relies on a large proportion of people becoming immune to a virus – through vaccination or past infection – meaning it spreads much more slowly or not at all through the population.
Scientists have suggested that between 40 and 70 per cent of people may need immunity for this to work with Covid-19. There is currently no proof that anyone gets long-term protection after having the disease once.
Although it's long it's worth citing the letter/ |Tthe scientists, led by Dr Deepti Gurdasani from Queen Mary University in London, said: 'Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for Covid-19 is flawed...
'There is no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following natural infection, and the endemic transmission that would be the consequence of waning immunity would present a risk to vulnerable populations for the indefinite future.
'Such a strategy would not end the Covid-19 pandemic but result in recurrent epidemics, as was the case with numerous infectious diseases before the advent of vaccination.
'It would also place an unacceptable burden on the economy and healthcare workers, many of whom have died from Covid-19 or experienced trauma as a result of having to practise disaster medicine.
'Additionally, we still do not understand who might suffer from long Covid. Defining who is vulnerable is complex, but even if we consider those at risk of severe illness, the proportion of vulnerable people constitute as much as 30 per cent of the population in some regions.
'Prolonged isolation of large swathes of the population is practically impossible and highly unethical.'
The paper advocates instead for governments – signatories came from the UK, US, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, France, Australia, Spain, Israel, Italy and Malaysia – to focus on stopping the coronavirus.
It concluded: 'The evidence is very clear: controlling community spread of Covid-19 is the best way to protect our societies and economies until safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics arrive within the coming months.
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Apols for the length but I thought it worth citing...there is no evidence that herd immunity works, on the contrary the cost of allowing it to happen would result in economic and social misery.
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Post by themaclad on Oct 18, 2020 16:10:58 GMT
 The top three areas also dropped yesterday
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Post by themaclad on Oct 18, 2020 16:14:41 GMT
Average positives in the last 7 days, the above is rate per 100,000  Taken from the Covid 19 Tweet site
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dawsonsjs
Preston North End
Posts: 9,599 Likes: 3,232
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Post by dawsonsjs on Oct 19, 2020 10:48:44 GMT
The rate in Germany for some fans to be let in is 3.5 per 100,000...as they seem to know a lot better what they are doing to control Covid than the shower making up our rules as they go along there's very long way to go yet.
If ever there was a case for reconstituting, in terms of local government, the proper county palatine of Lancashire (which has never changed) with natural boundaries such as the Mersey and the Pennines, this is it. It's ridiculous that you can cross over the road and be subject to a different set of rules and government support.
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Post by walburghian on Oct 19, 2020 19:08:23 GMT
The rate in Germany for some fans to be let in is 3.5 per 100,000...as they seem to know a lot better what they are doing to control Covid than the shower making up our rules as they go along there's very long way to go yet. If ever there was a case for reconstituting, in terms of local government, the proper county palatine of Lancashire (which has never changed) with natural boundaries such as the Mersey and the Pennines, this is it. It's ridiculous that you can cross over the road and be subject to a different set of rules and government support. Could try agree more Daws. Southport is in Merseyside, but has little infection - Liverpool are using our beds! However, the Govt believes that we are part of Liverpool - we aren't and have a Preston Postcode, which says it all.
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Post by themaclad on Oct 19, 2020 20:51:14 GMT
Vallance has told MP’s tonight a vaccine is unlikely to eradicate the Vid
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FinneyFan
Preston North End
Posts: 1,970 Likes: 337
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Post by FinneyFan on Oct 20, 2020 5:30:40 GMT
The rate in Germany for some fans to be let in is 3.5 per 100,000...as they seem to know a lot better what they are doing to control Covid than the shower making up our rules as they go along there's very long way to go yet. If ever there was a case for reconstituting, in terms of local government, the proper county palatine of Lancashire (which has never changed) with natural boundaries such as the Mersey and the Pennines, this is it. It's ridiculous that you can cross over the road and be subject to a different set of rules and government support. Yep, we live over the Mersey, on the Wirral. with a rate in the low to mid 200's yet are classed as in the Liverpool area for the purposes of Tier3 and we have a cheshire post code.
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Post by themaclad on Oct 20, 2020 8:16:53 GMT
The rate in Germany for some fans to be let in is 3.5 per 100,000...as they seem to know a lot better what they are doing to control Covid than the shower making up our rules as they go along there's very long way to go yet. If ever there was a case for reconstituting, in terms of local government, the proper county palatine of Lancashire (which has never changed) with natural boundaries such as the Mersey and the Pennines, this is it. It's ridiculous that you can cross over the road and be subject to a different set of rules and government support. Yep, we live over the Mersey, on the Wirral. with a rate in the low to mid 200's yet are classed as in the Liverpool area for the purposes of Tier3 and we have a cheshire post code. Rural area where I live 55 cases last seven days lumped in with Lancashire tier 3 apparently as diseased we are as Burnley
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Post by Mooney on Oct 20, 2020 10:03:18 GMT
Yep, we live over the Mersey, on the Wirral. with a rate in the low to mid 200's yet are classed as in the Liverpool area for the purposes of Tier3 and we have a cheshire post code. Rural area where I live 55 cases last seven days lumped in with Lancashire tier 3 apparently as diseased we are as Burnley Wyre overall looks pretty high... Ribble Valley has been low throughout, issue is if bars are closed in Accy, Harwood, Padiham, people will travel to Clitheroe. Anyway, let’s get back on topic... what year are we aiming for? 2022-23 season?
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Post by markos50 on Oct 20, 2020 10:21:02 GMT
I have generally gone along with all the rules and followed them....I'm a rule follower, many are, some are not. However, folk are getting fed up with rules being imposed without the data to back them up. I can go into a full [well SD full] Weatherspoons and get a pint and fish and chips, but I cannot go to a micropub down the road an sit outside...why? Where is the data. Fans back on to football is easy. At PNE say 6000 ST holders. Select 1000 for one game, then another 1000 for the next and rotate this. Minimum stewarding, no drink or food, SD sitting and use of the loos. I would feel safer and would be safer than having a few pints in the pub with my fish and chips Rules are fine but we need more info behind them.
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Post by themaclad on Oct 20, 2020 11:06:55 GMT
Rural area where I live 55 cases last seven days lumped in with Lancashire tier 3 apparently as diseased we are as Burnley Wyre overall looks pretty high... Ribble Valley has been low throughout, issue is if bars are closed in Accy, Harwood, Padiham, people will travel to Clitheroe. Anyway, let’s get back on topic... what year are we aiming for? 2022-23 season? Wyre also lumped partly in with Fleetwood say no more, saw something re Rugby League, Bradford told not to expect spectators until at least April although they are hoping for earlier. St Pauli had 1000 last night, Makinok was sighted, and on Sunday Schalke allowed 300 hundred capacity 60,000 they did make some noise though. Thing is the longer it goes on people will find other things to do on a Saturday
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PNE From Afar
Preston North End
#teamslikepreston
Posts: 4,495 Likes: 1,110
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Post by PNE From Afar on Oct 20, 2020 14:33:05 GMT
Wyre overall looks pretty high... Ribble Valley has been low throughout, issue is if bars are closed in Accy, Harwood, Padiham, people will travel to Clitheroe. Anyway, let’s get back on topic... what year are we aiming for? 2022-23 season? Wyre also lumped partly in with Fleetwood say no more, saw something re Rugby League, Bradford told not to expect spectators until at least April although they are hoping for earlier. St Pauli had 1000 last night, Makinok was sighted, and on Sunday Schalke allowed 300 hundred capacity 60,000 they did make some noise though. Thing is the longer it goes on people will find other things to do on a SaturdayIm struggling to keep any interest. Football without fans is just awful. Let's hope those in charge realise this and treat the fans with a bit more gratitude in the future. There might be a time in the none too distant future that football just collapses.
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Post by walburghian on Oct 20, 2020 20:00:30 GMT
The rate in Germany for some fans to be let in is 3.5 per 100,000...as they seem to know a lot better what they are doing to control Covid than the shower making up our rules as they go along there's very long way to go yet. If ever there was a case for reconstituting, in terms of local government, the proper county palatine of Lancashire (which has never changed) with natural boundaries such as the Mersey and the Pennines, this is it. It's ridiculous that you can cross over the road and be subject to a different set of rules and government support. Yep, we live over the Mersey, on the Wirral. with a rate in the low to mid 200's yet are classed as in the Liverpool area for the purposes of Tier3 and we have a cheshire post code. We're in Southport, which is now constituted to be in SEfton. The infection rate in Southport is in the low 200s per 100k, but Bootle is 900 per 100k. So again we are shafted by the 50k population in Bootlethat determines where Southport and Ainsdale/Formby are. So wrong and another issue about Politicians changing boundaries to give themselves an advantage. We have a Preston Postcode and thT IS WHERE i WOULD LIKE US TO BE. Come on you Whites.
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Post by walburghian on Oct 20, 2020 20:01:47 GMT
Yep, we live over the Mersey, on the Wirral. with a rate in the low to mid 200's yet are classed as in the Liverpool area for the purposes of Tier3 and we have a cheshire post code. We're in Southport, which is now constituted to be in SEfton. The infection rate in Southport is in the low 200s per 100k, but Bootle is 900 per 100k. So again we are shafted by the 50k population in Bootlethat determines where Southport and Ainsdale/Formby are. So wrong and another issue about Politicians changing boundaries to give themselves an advantage. We have a Preston Postcode and thT IS WHERE i WOULD LIKE US TO BE. Come on you Whites. PS the population of Southport is 75k and Bootle 50k, so they have 4* the infection rate of Southport
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Post by ginagee on Nov 23, 2020 15:57:09 GMT
Update:-
Sounds like sport is back from Dec 2:
Tier 1
4,000 spectators/ 50% capacity for outdoor events, whichever is lower, and 2,000/ 50% capacity for indoor
Tier 2
2,000 spectators/50% capacity outdoors, whichever is lower, and 1,000/ 50% indoors
Tier 3
Ban on spectators remains
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dawsonsjs
Preston North End
Posts: 9,599 Likes: 3,232
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Post by dawsonsjs on Nov 23, 2020 16:05:52 GMT
It's Lancashire Day this Friday Walb.....sounds like you need to get out the Red Rose flag anf parade it around Southport, Formby etc...you'd get a lot of support.
----
As for the tiers and the admittance of spectators this is bordering on the arbitrary....some may think it a step in the right direction, others that it will bring on a third wave.
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smithy0312
Trusted Forum Member

Posts: 86 Likes: 92
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Post by smithy0312 on Nov 23, 2020 17:05:57 GMT
I think this is aimed at benefiting the clubs in the south as a lot of towns up north are or will be classed as tier 3 which means zero fans allowed typical Boris
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Phantom Winger
Preston North End
Good luck to all in white.
Posts: 13,188 Likes: 5,160
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Post by Phantom Winger on Nov 23, 2020 17:43:01 GMT
We will be allowed 0.
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Post by px6 on Nov 23, 2020 19:20:53 GMT
We’re going on tier 2, so likely allowed some fans. From Thursday! Gutted just missing the plastics game.
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Post by walburghian on Nov 23, 2020 19:37:12 GMT
It's Lancashire Day this Friday Walb.....sounds like you need to get out the Red Rose flag anf parade it around Southport, Formby etc...you'd get a lot of support. ---- As for the tiers and the admittance of spectators this is bordering on the arbitrary....some may think it a step in the right direction, others that it will bring on a third wave. Will do Daws! As to attending, I believe that 50% is too high to have proper Social distancing and, as I am vulnerable, can't see me going back on until the vaccine is issued. At least, I'll be 2nd in the queue. Keep safe everyone
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Post by px6 on Nov 23, 2020 19:46:12 GMT
It’s 2000 for tier 2 4000 tier 3
Seems to be regardless of size of the stadium?? 4000 would fill most league two grounds.
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Post by px6 on Dec 10, 2020 21:45:15 GMT
Lancs looking more likely to be in tier 2 Wednesday.
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Post by mid010101 on Dec 10, 2020 22:40:33 GMT
Lancs looking more likely to be in tier 2 Wednesday. Don’t count on it sounds more likely all others will join tier 3 . I hope that I am wrong
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Post by Mooney on Dec 12, 2020 18:54:53 GMT
Lancs looking more likely to be in tier 2 Wednesday. And me back at Deepdale Friday night maybe?
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Post by themaclad on Dec 13, 2020 12:05:07 GMT
We should be in Tier 2 bet we won’t be and just as a matter of interest Germany goes into full lockdown on Wednesday for them Pike, Christmas is cancelled
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Post by walburghian on Dec 13, 2020 13:59:13 GMT
I was quite happy to pay iFollow earlier in the Season but not anymore.This team doesn't try and that is inexcusable.
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Post by themaclad on Dec 13, 2020 16:26:58 GMT
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Phantom Winger
Preston North End
Good luck to all in white.
Posts: 13,188 Likes: 5,160
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Post by Phantom Winger on Dec 13, 2020 22:54:33 GMT
Crazy watching fans in London stadia with the infection rate there. One of a few anomalies. Like mass testing in schools.
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